Private Servers When?

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Gaikang
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Private Servers When?

Post by Gaikang » August 3rd, 2015, 2:33 am

Or do you think they'll actually manage to keep stuff on lockdown this time? I know a lot of people who are interested in this game were also really into Ragnarok Online, and IIRC the Private Servers were such a big deal that they had more players than the official servers. Did you play on an RO private server? Wouldn't you play on a Tree of Savior private server?
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Ramsus » August 3rd, 2015, 2:42 am

Mehhhh... The actual game is already free, I would do it only if the P2W becomes too strong
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Arvatrez » August 3rd, 2015, 2:58 am

I believe some people from IP blocked country will consider playing international private server since they hate their own local publisher and toxic community

Example: Indonesia
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Aries » August 3rd, 2015, 4:26 am

It's a free game.... :...:
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Noctureon » August 3rd, 2015, 8:54 am

The only reason Private Servers clicked with the Philippine crowd was to get out of paying a month's worth of lunch money for a week of play.
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by KeksX » August 3rd, 2015, 9:03 am

Private servers killed Ragnarok's longevity. Imagine all those players on private servers on public servers, we would've gotten proper servers ages ago as well as a proper sequel instead of what they call "RO2".
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Noctureon » August 3rd, 2015, 9:32 am

KeksX wrote:Private servers killed Ragnarok's longevity. Imagine all those players on private servers on public servers, we would've gotten proper servers ages ago as well as a proper sequel instead of what they call "RO2".
If ToS has nothing wrong with it and private servers still pop up, I suggest we ACTIVELY discourage people from using them.
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Courtis » August 3rd, 2015, 10:58 am

Private Servers suck. Especially the ones with high EXP rates :ok:
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by protosx » August 3rd, 2015, 2:25 pm

If TOS server mainframe is as easily hackable/cloneable like the AEGIS server mainframe of ragnarok online then it wont take long. Ragnarok online just like the other old games (MU, FLYFF, ROSE etc) uses a linear system with minimal filtering and security measures. However, the greatest weakness of this games is not only due to their old server mainframe but also due to their GAME CLIENT mainframe.

Ragnarok Online AEGIS server is made from MS DOS and SQL server as Database. The very 1st clone of this server mainframe is the ATHENA (japanese version) which is translated and made to E-Athena or the ENGLISH ATHENA. EAthena is the most popular server being used to support ragnarok private servers.

Going back to the GAME CLIENT Mainframe weakness, a lot of games like ragnarok online, flyff, MU, Rose etc puts the so called "Player Processes" on the Game Client itself. Which means, the Status calculation, Attack calculation, speed regulation, drop moderation etc happens on the game client itself. This is the main reason why this game have SPEED HACK, TELEPORT HACK, ATTACK HACK, etc etc because the game client doesnt need to communicate with the Game Server to get the calculation directives and values.

Ever wonder why games like Blade and Soul, SkyForge etc are PING Reliant games? which means that if you have High ping/latency most probably you will get the attack result or you can even get rollbacks when you experience LAG SPIKES? the main reason is, the game client communicates with the game server and the game server itself is the one who calculates the status, provides the attack values etc including current location of the char, attack value of monsters etc.

TOS surely follows a more advance and newer game server mainframe. I wish that it will be impossible for this game to have a private server... i never ever want TOS to end up the same as Ragnarok Online.
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Silk » August 3rd, 2015, 5:07 pm

A note about Private servers existence
RO was hacked early in it's inception, data stolen which contained the core of the game. Part of the reason so many Private Servers exist is because of a mass of stolen information that's been being passed around since before RO even came out. (As I understand the story.)

On the side of Private Servers
>Remember that some and possibly many people we're talking about would never play at all, rather than being potential players who go to Private servers, also consider players who wouldn't get involved if not for private servers
>Many games thrive and become marketable and profitable because of the boom in popularity of edits, mods, and hacks. Some amount of breaching security could allow for interesting videos. A viral accident can be more valuable than great advertising
>Private servers become competition which force main ToS to buckle down and treat it's player more correctly than if they were to go elsewhere. Everyone *wants* to play on the main server, and if it's free, most people will. So long as they're treated to better service than a Private server, meaning no Play to Win and things that only the main company can be expected to keep up with well, like a well balanced economy and immediate service on bugs and reports.

The Anti-Private Server argument
>Surely they'll bring some amount of players away from the game, players our favorite game needs to remain profitable and populated
>People will jump to the alternative at any sign of change or lack of service, even something that may be good in the long term. Some times a game developer knows better than their fans, and seeing an overpriced hat or a nerf to their class might make some people jump ship.
>Our player base could become split between so many services that we end up with multiple small services providing ever so slightly different features. Vanilla ToS, ToS from before the class nerf, ToS with slightly more EXP but not a lot more. With IMCGames unable to keep up with such a level of service, we might end up spreading so thin that Private servers can be successful endeavors since they don't need a big player base as the're just someones hobby, but ToS ends up a commercial failure.

My opinion
Listen, the last thing will happen.

You talk to somebody about World of Warcraft back in the day and they are so quick to say "Vanilla Server." Hell, I'm quick to say that about RO.

Look at the dozens, maybe even hundreds of RO servers.

New Gear,
Homebrew Gear,
Green, Red, Black, Blue gear
Events for Christmas time and New Year
No airships teleport anywhere

Double, Triple, Quadruple,
Septuple EXP
Trans, No Trans, 3rd Job
level 99 for free

Post Renewal, Pre-Renewal, New Areas, Vanilla
Chocolate, Strawberry, Banana, caramel, peanut Nutella

and there's a lot more that I could mention but my points there.


Some truth
Gravity got it's stuff taken before, and people I'm sure notice the specific success of RO private servers, them being larger in comparison to their game than, say, WoW private servers or RuneScape private servers. Because people see RO as an example, we can expect people to try and replicate the same situation in ToS.

Plus it's human nature to play in the easiest, most fun way to you. People that play will be hard pressed to feel like they "owe it" to the people who made the game to spend their time and money there when they don't really see anyone getting hurt and the effects of their actions are long term. People aren't going to think "if I play on a Private Server it would be like personally taking future content plans out of the game." but that is what it's like, so what do we do about this?

Game Plan

Zealousy is dangerous, pre-emptive attacks are just advertisementsI think people will play on Private Servers unless they really feel like it's a crime and a sin against the community. But I ALSO think that popularizing the idea of creating a private server by over-zealously speaking out against them will be very negative as well. D.A.R.E had an inverse effect on drug use in my home town, God a lot of kids do Heroine here... That's a different story, it was an anti-drug program that was very in your face and kids got forced to sit down in cafeterias, and rebelling against school spirit was cool in our not-sports-winnin suburban child jail, so drugs got cool to.

When they come up as a real issue rather than a theoretical one, we should combat them with reason and a sense of community. Please don't go here, we watch these things ruin Ragnarok Online's income so hard that it went free to play and then switched to local publishers who ruined it in their own way in every single country. By going to [this] private server, you are holding future game content hostage and turning what could be a 10 year experience into a 3 year one. For all of us.

The game designers have the best grip on balance for the game anyway

imcGames part
ImcGames is gonna have to play it's part in being the most serviceable and rewarding way to play. The game balance should be on point, the games economy should be on lock, and the variety and accommodation of players wants should be on fleek.

But that's just my opinion :lv:
Last edited by Silk on August 3rd, 2015, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Icystare » August 3rd, 2015, 5:12 pm

Private servers killed Ragnarok's longevity. Imagine all those players on private servers on public servers, we would've gotten proper servers ages ago as well as a proper sequel instead of what they call "RO2".
You can't stop people from trying to reverse engineering the game. If you thought private servers "killed" Ragnarok Online then you are severely misinform and clearly been living under a rock for nearly 13 years.
Much of RO's success (this includes the official servers) was due to the introduction of E-Athena as NO ONE enjoyed the P2P method that was first implemented. I can almost guarantee that majority of the players that played RO during that era either was
  • In school with no way to obtain a credit card
  • Not working and unable to get a credit card
  • Cheapskate.
Private servers provided players a place to test out whether they enjoyed RO enough to justify that spent cash on the official servers. Of course you can't deny that people joined private servers because of was free.
You people don't understand how rare it was to have a F2P game up and running that wasn't made from shockwave(an obsolete flash plugin).

Also the shitty RO2 you guys know of today was 100x better than the crap they made previously and it wasn't the result of RO being "dead" or "killed". They had RO2 in development after they finished Rose Online and was ready to ride the wave of hype that (official & unofficial)RO provided Gravity. Except it failed since they made a shit game.
(Refer below to why it was shit.)
The failures of RO2
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Silk » August 3rd, 2015, 5:32 pm

Icystare wrote:
You can't stop people from trying to reverse engineering the game. If you thought private servers "killed" Ragnarok Online then you are severely misinform and clearly been living under a rock for nearly 13 years.
Much of RO's success (this includes the official servers) was due to the introduction of E-Athena as NO ONE enjoyed the P2P method that was first implemented. I can almost guarantee that majority of the players that played RO during that era either was
  • In school with no way to obtain a credit card
  • Not working and unable to get a credit card
  • Cheapskate.
Private servers provided players a place to test out whether they enjoyed RO enough to justify that spent cash on the official servers. Of course you can't deny that people joined private servers because of was free.
You people don't understand how rare it was to have a F2P game up and running that wasn't made from shockwave(an obsolete flash plugin).

Also the shitty RO2 you guys know of today was 100x better than the crap they made previously and it wasn't the result of RO being "dead" or "killed". They had RO2 in development after they finished Rose Online and was ready to ride the wave of hype that (official & unofficial)RO provided Gravity. Except it failed since they made a shit game.
(Refer below to why it was shit.)
The failures of RO2
Danm, this is totally inverse of a really long opinion I *just* wrote. But I totally like it because of that.

However, because RO was given up by gravity and given to local publishers, I see that as a commercial failure (more research required.) And because all of my friends had switched to private servers, and RO was still very popular and talked about in terms of private servers right up until it was given to Warp Portal, I see Private Servers as potentially at fault in some way.

If they're a necessary evil because you can't stop people from reverse engineering a game, that's different from saying that they're a necessary evil that is coincidentally good and will be fine and super helpful
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by oekalaboeka1 » August 3rd, 2015, 5:49 pm

I really liked private RO servers myself but that was due to the bot infested IRO servers. It's even so sad that I've played for like 4 years on IRO and have less fun memories then any other private server I've played after that.

However I'd much rather see ToS being properly implemented. Of course it's impossible to make the perfect game, everyone has a different taste but I really hope they can get a good baseline for casual and hardcore gamers.
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Icystare » August 3rd, 2015, 5:57 pm

Danm, this is totally inverse of a really long opinion I *just* wrote. But I totally like it because of that.

However, because RO was given up by gravity and given to local publishers, I see that as a commercial failure (more research required.) And because all of my friends had switched to private servers, and RO was still very popular and talked about in terms of private servers right up until it was given to Warp Portal, I see Private Servers as potentially at fault in some way.

If they're a necessary evil because you can't stop people from reverse engineering a game, that's different from saying that they're a necessary evil that is coincidentally good and will be fine and super helpful
RO is one of those games where private servers did more good than harm to the RO gaming community. Gravity tried to shutdown the private servers but it was an impossible feat as copyright laws weren't enforced during that time and the internet overall was still in puberty. Gravity didn't stop support KRO or jRO (although iRO was neglected for almost years).
RO commercially was a massive failure outside of kRO until they accepted the fact that private servers were going to stay and for a long time then after 2/3 years RO's popularity skyrocketed. That popularity trickles the much needed playerbase for all the official servers as private servers weren't a stable existence like the official servers, so a lot of the private server players end up going official.
Half of the fault was on the private server while the other half was on Gravity for not listen to players back in kRO about P2P and payed the price when it hit JP/NA shores.
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Vektor » August 4th, 2015, 4:29 am

I can't talk for everyone who played on private servers, but I can tell my experience. When RO was a big success in my country, Brazil, it was published by a local and much hated national company. And the only option we had was a server with a subscription fee. Many people played on it, but I just really couldn't afford that. I had no money since I was still quite young, and my parents strongly opposed using credit cards on the internet. So what options did I have? Private servers.

I played in many, many private servers back in day. High rate, mid rate, low rate, you name it. It was always a good experience, until the server eventually got shut down or just disappeared. That kept going until I found an "old-school" private server and played on it for more than a year. After that time I got bored with the game and started playing WoW (also in private servers).

After many years, while finishing school, the Brazilian company finally understood that their business model couldn't keep up with the market and created a f2p server. The subscription one didn't end, they just made a new one, where you could play for free and purchase cash items. They made it so the cash items were blatantly superior to in-game ones, and leveling was such a grind that buying non-tradable xp boost items was almost a must.

Still, I had a great time on that server, and me and my friends played for a few years as well before college. I managed to get to lategame and decent enough gear to play WoE in one of the biggest guilds in the server, without spending a single penny.

What I'm trying to say here is that private servers revealed to me my love for RO, and when the official publisher decided to make a f2p server, even though they were shitty and extremely money-hungry, I went there without thinking twice and had a blast. So yeah, since ToS is f2p since day 1 and international servers are linked to steam, I don't see much of a threat in private servers. Perhaps a few "insta max lvl" ones for people to test their endgame builds and PvP, perhaps some highrate servers for people who like to be flashy and feel all powerfull... who knows? But that won't harm the playerbase I think.
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Immoral » August 8th, 2015, 11:08 pm

Why would someone play in the unofficial server of a free [no pay] international [no ip banned] game? I think that this alone would defeat any purpose of private servers :ok:
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Gardosen » August 9th, 2015, 12:16 am

Ragnarok had a solid stand when AppleGirl created the first Emulator for Ragnarok Online,

before there were only a small handfull of Private Servers which where running in law protected areas based on Aegis, which got leaked in 2002 by Gravity over an open ftp port and a bad password.

when the emulators appeared stronger and stronger Ragnarok had a solid stand and made enough money that Gravity was able to survive, even when they lost all fights against emulator privat servers infront of the court.

For Tree of Savior, this situation is different, if someone would release a Private Server Emulator for Tree of Savior, the damage to IMCGames would be huge, it would probably kill the game, IMCGames does not have a solid stand yet, it would be a neck breaker for IMCGames.

Even when i enjoyed the private server scene of Ragnarok Online, i would not like to see an open source emulator for TOS.

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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by KeksX » August 9th, 2015, 4:49 am

Icystare wrote:
Private servers killed Ragnarok's longevity. Imagine all those players on private servers on public servers, we would've gotten proper servers ages ago as well as a proper sequel instead of what they call "RO2".
You can't stop people from trying to reverse engineering the game. If you thought private servers "killed" Ragnarok Online then you are severely misinform and clearly been living under a rock for nearly 13 years.
(Snip due to length)
How exactly do kids with no money or unemployed cheapskates help with a game's success? By giving the developer no money?
I think you're confusing (financial) success with popularity.

You could certainly argue that the private servers did some mouth-to-mouth advertisement, but ultimately the majority of players on those servers never touched the official servers, let alone left money on them. So even though you had all those players playing the game, Gravity saw none of that since the majority was playing on illegal versions.
Many private servers probably made more money out of Ragnarok than burda did with the european servers in some time periods.

I'm not even saying all private servers are bad. I believe that they can be great, but the way the Ragnarok community did it was just completely over the top.
This is certainly not "doing good" - this is cheating the company whose game you're loving out of their well-deserverd profit.

So in the end I cannot stop people from reverse engineering the game, certainly. Though it's one thing to reverse engineer the game, and it's another to abuse the hell out of it, steal intellectual property and ruin a company's work and investment with it. Which is essentially what the private server community did - while making a profit on it for themselves. With stolen property.

It's not entirely exclusive to Ragnarok, many people on the internet feel entitled to get everything for free and believe there's no such thing as intellectual property, but if everyone would act like that there'd be no games industry. And that would be sad.

Also, I don't actually want to talk about RO2. I was just taking a stab at it. Every iteration of it was an abysmal piece of sh.. um.


And just as a sidenote, I would be doing yardwork so that my mom would pay for my Ragnarok Online sub. So I paid for the game even as a 10 y/o. :P
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Immoral » August 9th, 2015, 8:34 am

Imo, popularity equals financial success. For every X freeloaders there will be some people that actually ends up paying the game, and the big numbers always win. Actually lots of things that was easily distributable for free ended up being a financial success, while many blinded pay project ended up in utter failure.

Plus, the companies aren't just the loved game makers that only get a fair share. Market strategies often doesn't get too far from thievery, and as I won't directly advocate it in the form of piracy or anything else, both sides have their share of it. :ok:
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Re: Private Servers When?

Post by Gardosen » August 9th, 2015, 11:09 am

Immoral wrote:both sides have their share of it. :ok:
wrong,

gravity is not making profit with ragnarok since years.

the privat server scene became toxic 2 years ago, when pinoys started a server farm tactic to get the most money of their servers.
they created a framework, started a server with huge advertisment, which was running for 2 months till the payment decreased. then they closed the server, changed the name and some graphics, and restarted the server with new advertisment.

there is no "both sides have their share of it". If you really believe this, im sorry for you.

Private servers are extremly toxic, for ragnarok they were, and for tree of savior, they are even more dangorous.
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