Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

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Uzaak
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Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by Uzaak » March 24th, 2016, 9:26 pm

I haven't participated in Beta, but I've watched several videos and read several articles on the Swordsman classes.

I created the following two purelly theoretical builds. Note that they both focus on the late game, I don't care whether I do or do not deal damage early on as long as I have a good late-game build (ie I don't pick Bash or Thrust because I don't see me using them later).

Highlander Doppel: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simu ... q9cr8h6k2/

Barbarian Doppel: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simu ... 3n16xu6et/

The Swordsman and Doppel Soeldner parts are pretty much the same. The difference lays in whether I'll go as a Barbarian (more popular for Doppels) or Highlander.

Highlander Pros: Crosscut + Skyliner, Cross Guard, and the +50% Critical passive.

Barbarian Pros: Warcry, Frenzy and Pouncing (might trade Embowel for 10Seism, 1HelmChopper and 4StompingKick)

I plan on going with a full DEX build (not sure it is the best way to go, but as far as I read, it looks more promising than going STR).

What are your thoughts on these builds? Any ideas on what can be improved?
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Tingles
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Re: Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by Tingles » March 24th, 2016, 10:51 pm

I've been following the same path as you, only watching videos and reading articles, and i'll write here things based on my theoretical knowledge about the game so far...

regarding your skill builds: Good choice for both

BUT

for High~Doppel* (lol) I would focus much more on applying harmfull effects such as bleeding and crowd control effects to make use of vertical slash additional damage.

for Bar~Doppel I would keep the enemies NEAR me instead of throwing them away (giant swing) and would focus my DPS on basic attacks (since using restrain + frenzy would both stun and increase my dmg) then make use of Cleave (+dmg on enemies afflicted with [stun]) Seism and Stomping Kick.


As for your stats, I really do not recommend going for a Full DEX build, since there's no Attack benefit on it.


STR (Strength)
  • [/color]Increases min physical attack by 1.
  • [/color]Increases max physical attack by 1.
  • [/color]Increases critical attack by 1.
  • [/color]Increases weight limit by 5.

Note: For every additional class rank, you receive a bonus of 10% STR.

CON (Constitution)
  • [/color]Increases max HP by 85.
  • [/color]Increases HP recovery rate by 1.
  • [/color]Increases critical hit resistance by 1.
  • [/color]Increases weight limit by 5.
  • [/color]Increases shield block by 1 (Only when equipped with a shield.)

Note: The more max HP a character possesses, the more they'll be healed by Cleric's Heal and Priest's Mass Heal, regardless of the Cleric's or Priest's intrinsic stats.
Note: HP recovery is more effective while the character is sitting and located around a bonfire.

INT (Intelligence)
  • [/color]Increases min magic attack by 1.
  • [/color]Increases max magic attack by 1.

Note: INT affects most offensive spells, every Wizard classes' basic-attack bolts, as well as Sadhu Out-of-Body melee auto-attacks. Note: For every additional class rank, you receive a bonus of 10% INT.

SPR (Spirit)
  • [/color]Increases max SP pool by 13.
  • [/color]Increases SP recovery rate by 1.
  • [/color]Increases block penetration by 1.
  • [/color]Increases magic defense by 0.2.

Note: SPR increases the potency of several buffs, debuffs and healing skills, making it a useful stat for support oriented Cleric classes.

DEX (Dexterity)
  • [/color]Increases accuracy by 1.
  • [/color]Increases critical hit chance by 1.
  • [/color]Increases evasion by 1.

Note: DEX bonuses only affect physical attacks, as magic attacks can't miss, can't crit and can't be dodged.
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Uzaak
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Re: Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by Uzaak » March 25th, 2016, 12:31 am

HighDoppel:

Pretty much the same I've thought. Even though I'd focus more on Crosscut + Skyliner (because they've been called OPs), I'll have Skull Swing and Vertical Slash available as options too, which can cover my while I'm unable to Skyliner for whichever reason. What called my attention here though is the capacity to crit and block, meaning I could very well be a front liner using block to hold off enemies while my team crushes them, if worst comes to worst.


BarbDoppel:

In all honesty I only put points on Swing for laugher sake, while thinking about it I came to realize it could be useful to keep that little something at bay. It will definitely not be my main skill. Now, about Seism, I'll switch Embowel off for it. I even considered putting one point into Helm Chopper for stun sake. Now the point is: While this is more popular, is Frenzy really better than Crosscut Skyliner? IMO we're talking skill-based versus basic attacks here, and I'm not sure what's best. Frenzy does combo well with Deeds of Valor though, but is it worth dropping the +50% Crit and the ability to defend?


Also about STR X DEX:

Something I read stuck to my mind: There are way more STR increasing buffs and equipments than DEX increasing ones. Put that along with the exponential increase in stat distribution and you'll have, after 600 stat points and Rank 7 WITHOUT buffs:

Image
(I'm sure theres a better way to do this without printing a spreadsheet. Heres the img link anyhow: https://i.imgsafe.org/3ebc1e2.png)

Maybe going half STR half DEX is the way to go? I have absolutely no idea how much evasion I'll need to effectively EVADE stuff. Also the crit rate seems reasonable, paired with the +50% from High it might mean pretty strong crits. Going full DEX is definitely skill-based. I'm not sure what STR-DEX rate is best.

EDIT: I've included a distribution at a 47:73 ratio. That would generate pretty close numbers on STR and DEX and might (?) be the way to go. Or might be completely useless. No idea. Lol

EDIT 2: Hey, I just realized I misread Highlander's crit passive. It inreases critical attack, not critical rate, meaning a hybrid build would suit things better anyhow. Now the question remains: Barb or High?
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Re: Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by NaivE RavE » April 8th, 2016, 12:10 pm

Strange that nobody leave a comment here. The post is actually pretty good.
I would go Sword > Highlander > Barb3
Only to get that 50% attribute and Cross Guard(5 lvl i know, but it is still good because scales with str and i believe would be useful even in late game).
Stat:
STR DEX
1 : 2
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arzh.mael
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Re: Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by arzh.mael » April 9th, 2016, 7:41 am

I think nobody leaves com' here because this topic have allready got an huge debate on official forum and if you do some researchs you could get tons of advices. ;)

But if you want mine (i have been reading lots of guids) I am going for Swordy 1/Peltasta 1/Barbarian 3/Doppel 2.
Pelta for taunt on party play, doppel for Helm chopper lv1/Cleave/Seism and buffs. Doppel for DoV/Cyclone and others great damages skills.

I am not recomanding fulk dex builds with DoV Build since this become more effective the more str you get and you ll not get stacks when you avoid an attack.
Add to it, your critical % chance is lesser effective the more higher level you are. So i dont like to rely on it. Better to go for mix stats or full str.

Sorry for my english. ;)
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Re: Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by MikeSuit(Soviet) » April 9th, 2016, 11:44 am

Guys, what about armor?
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arzh.mael
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Re: Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by arzh.mael » April 9th, 2016, 7:40 pm

Plate.... Just Plate.
If you want to get DoV stacks you need to be hit, so what is the point of stacking evasion?
It's far better to increase your HP (and more effective agains magical attacks).
Add to it, you ll get extra stamina to run and have some fun! :p
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Re: Highlander Doppel X Barbarian Doppel

Post by AlthanMaiel » April 10th, 2016, 9:06 pm

Hello
Right now I'm a lvl 115 Sword->Highlander C3 and I might add some things to your posts

I've built more or less STR:DEX 1:1 and it works perfectly, I don't need CON that much right now and I'll never need SPR and INT.

About the armor type, I would recommend to build up Cloth and Plate, and try to get a good Cloth Stuff on you all the time, cause Magic can be really hurtful so some switch from one map to another can help you survive.

I did up STR first and then caught up with DEX whenever I needed, you should really have DEX only when you seems to not crit a lot. I rushed a Lapis Katzbalger (big increase of CritA) and with gems and passive from highlander, I have almost a 3:1 ratio CritA:CritR. That's more than enought.

The Highlander C2 with crosscut is REALLY useful if you build STR because [Bleeding] is about your STR. Highlander C3 SkullSwing can be a beast with High Def targets (cause its low DEF to 0) but I used it essentially to farm my Lapis Katz (I had 50 lvl differences with the mobs so I hit them at 1 until I used it).

So if you take the Highlander Path I would highly recommand Sword -> Highlander -> Highlander -> Barbarian -> Barbarian- Doppel. This way, you have the benefits of cross cut and the Frenzy warcry thing.

About the skills, that's what I use for Highlander and it's perfectly fine (I'm at the end of Mage Tower at the moment):

Wagon Wheel lvl 1 (for control and I barely use it), Cartar Stroke lvl 5 (no need to up it too much, 5 is a long enought cast but it helps on bosses), Skyliner MAX (really, max it), Crosscut MAX, Moulinet max it (nice addition of damage). The last 4 remaining points can be put into cross guard I guess, since I play High C3 I've put them into Skull Swing and Vertical Slash

I hope it would have help you a bit, I wrote that pretty quickly so I might have said some mistakes (english is not my main language) but overall it's easy to EXP until lvl 100 with this build without any difficulties.
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