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The Vending Machine - PvE Support/Utility Build: CPCKDP

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 4:30 am
by Balerathon
Howdy!

Brand new to the game and forums, I'm Balerathon. Glad to be here!

I had an idea for a build and have been tweaking it for a bit now. Meet: The Vending Machine!

The general idea for gameplay style is to be a mostly group-dependent player (requiring at least one other member to play effectively). I consider this build something of a JOATMON with an emphasis on altruism.

Also note, I've not played the game at all and have no data on what skills look better on paper than they do in game, so if you have observations / experience, I'm all for it!

Please feel free to offer critiques, suggestions, comments, etc. : )

EDIT: Based on feedback by Enkie (below), I've modified my build to include Priest 1, as well as shuffling around some points. Otherwise, major path choices remain the same.

Rationale:

Guiding Principles:

#1 Always take at least 1 point in every available skill for Simony.
#2 Buff | Debuff | Utility | Heal > DPS.
#3 Team utility over Individual utility.
#4 Have a presence on the field. Team members should notice if I'm slacking.

The Build:

v1.0: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simu ... 3cbcypgwzv

v2.0 - Current: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simu ... x724sgwri/


Changelog:
  • Added section on Stat Point Distribution.

    v1.0 - > 2.0
    • Added Priest 1 between Cleric 1 and Cleric 2.

      Priest:
      • Raised Aspersion to 4
        Raised Monstrance to 5
        Raised Blessing to 5
        Raised Resurrect to 1
      Cleric:
      • Dropped Cure to 1 for the cleanse.
        Raised Safety Zone to 5.
        Removed Divine Might as it no longer works with Simony
      Krivis:
      • Lowered Aukuras to 1.
        Raised Zaibas to 4.
      Dievdirby:
      • Lowered Carve to 1.
        Raised Goddess Statue to 4.
Cleric 1: Taken for obvious reasons.

Priest 1: Taken for Resurrect, but the other skills seems alright.

Cleric 2: Taken mostly for Fade as an aggro drop and ohsh!t button. The other choices I went for group protection.

Krivis 1: Taken for Daino. Also, crit bonuses from Zalciai are always welcome!

Dievdirby 1: Laima and Zemyna felt like a good way to plunk down a continuous presence of the field. Plus, being able to allow 4 people to use a Goddess statue basically at will is great utility!

Pardoner 1: This was mostly for my own amusement and utility as well as for the good of my guild and mates. Simony looks like a nice pass-time, and Discerning Evil is probably gonna be amazing. Here I had to steal a point from +MDef to Indulgentia so that I could use Simony with it.

EDIT: Thanks to YuuStynes, I've added the section below on Stat distribution! Great catch :)

Stat Point Distribution

For how to distribute points, that will be up to the player and will have an effect on how your char plays within the build. What I really want is to provide all the info you need (with everyone's help) and set folks up to decide for themselves.

Generally though, we want to focus on Spirit + Int, but which gets prioritized is a personal preference.

According to the TOSBase Wiki:
  • Int
    • Increases min magic attack by 1.
      Increases max magic attack by 1.
    Spr:
    • Increases max SP pool by 13.
      Increases SP recovery rate by 1.
      Increases block penetration by 1.
      Increases magic defense by 0.2.
Below is a breakdown of which skill benefits from either Spirit, Int or Neither in this build. As you can see, Int benefits only a few skills, but they are important ones. On the other hand, most of our skills don't actually depend on a particular attribute as they apply a flat buff / debuff based on skill level and attributes.

That said, I think that if you plan on being more Heal centric (with the benefit of boosting your main DPS skill) then prioritize Int over Spr

If you plan on being more of a utility player and want a larger SP pool, prioritize Spirit.

Heal/DPS > Buff/Debuff: 3-int : 2-spr ratio

Buff/Debuff > Heal/DPS: 3-spr : 2-int or even 2 : 1 ratio (though this will make your heals pretty weak so beware).

I'd probably throw some points into Con (HP) as well. A dead cleric casts no boons.
  • Int:
    • Heal
      Cure
      Zaibas
    Spirit:
    • DeProtect Zone
      Aspersion
      Monstrance
      Zalciai
      +Magic Def
    Neither:
    • Safety Zone
      Blessing
      Resurrection
      Divine Might
      Fade
      Aukuras
      Daino
      Simony
      Discern Evil

      All Dievdirby skills - Here I should mention that these skills depend on an independent resource (wood). I currently have 1 point in Carve (which has a chance to drop such resources). If it turns out that this wood is hard to come by, I'll likely bump points into Carve.
Hope this helps, and if I've made any mistakes or you disagree with my analysis, please chime in!
Cheers!
Bale

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 7:07 pm
by enkie03
They say that Priest C1 is pretty useless in the CBT because everyone can resu on their own using "coins" but after the CBT, this coins will be limited because you have to buy them. It is the "premium" currency of ToS, I think.

As for the build, with you Cleric, Divine Might is pretty useless now after the nerf, so, it is better to totally forget about it, invest the points instead to Safety Zone, since you party can benefit on this buff as well after you get the attribute for it. As for Cure, the only reason you want to make it higher than lvl 1 is to use it as a damage spell, if so, then you might want to make it higher, but if you just want to use it for utility (i.e. to remove debuff) you can just leave it a lvl 1.

As for Krivis, I've seem on different forums, and from youtube as well, that Aukuras is pretty useless. It will be better to move the points to Zaibas instead. It is one of the best offensive spell in the game and is really powerful. It might not buff you party, but it will help you dish out decent damage, since in this game, it is kinda hard to be FS, you'll have to do some damage yourself. :gawi:

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 7:37 pm
by Kazuya
enkie03 wrote:They say that Priest C1 is pretty useless in the CBT because everyone can resu on their own using "coins" but after the CBT, this coins will be limited because you have to buy them. It is the "premium" currency of ToS, I think.
ToS confirmed P2W

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 8:09 pm
by Musteque
Kazuya wrote:
enkie03 wrote:They say that Priest C1 is pretty useless in the CBT because everyone can resu on their own using "coins" but after the CBT, this coins will be limited because you have to buy them. It is the "premium" currency of ToS, I think.
ToS confirmed P2W
Don't be dramatic. iCoins can also be obtained by completing achievements. Achievements are character bound, not account bound, so you can still earn coins from alts after you've completed all your main character achievements. You can play without spending a dime and still have access to cash shop features, obviously it will require you to be quite active.

Also I wouldn't recommend spending iCoins to self res. Seems like a waste.

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 8:21 pm
by Kazuya
Musteque wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
enkie03 wrote:They say that Priest C1 is pretty useless in the CBT because everyone can resu on their own using "coins" but after the CBT, this coins will be limited because you have to buy them. It is the "premium" currency of ToS, I think.
ToS confirmed P2W
Don't be dramatic. iCoins can also be obtained by completing achievements. Achievements are character bound, not account bound, so you can still earn coins from alts after you've completed all your main character achievements. You can play without spending a dime and still have access to cash shop features, obviously it will require you to be quite active.

Also I wouldn't recommend spending iCoins to self res. Seems like a waste.

Good to know I have the option between playing 200 hours or paying 4.99 for unlimited resurrections

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 8:44 pm
by Fleece
Kazuya wrote:
Musteque wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
ToS confirmed P2W
Don't be dramatic. iCoins can also be obtained by completing achievements. Achievements are character bound, not account bound, so you can still earn coins from alts after you've completed all your main character achievements. You can play without spending a dime and still have access to cash shop features, obviously it will require you to be quite active.

Also I wouldn't recommend spending iCoins to self res. Seems like a waste.

Good to know I have the option between playing 200 hours or paying 4.99 for unlimited resurrections
Or, you know, res in town without iCoins or a priest friend. This isn't permadeath ya know o.o

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 8:46 pm
by Musteque
Fleece wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
Musteque wrote:
Don't be dramatic. iCoins can also be obtained by completing achievements. Achievements are character bound, not account bound, so you can still earn coins from alts after you've completed all your main character achievements. You can play without spending a dime and still have access to cash shop features, obviously it will require you to be quite active.

Also I wouldn't recommend spending iCoins to self res. Seems like a waste.

Good to know I have the option between playing 200 hours or paying 4.99 for unlimited resurrections
Or, you know, res in town without iCoins or a priest friend. This isn't permadeath ya know o.o
Not dying every 2 minutes would also work. :heh:

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 9:21 pm
by Bevr
Unless you're settled on the Cleric tree, the Linker from the Mage tree seems like your kinda role, since they have many skills that can help in groups or if its just you and a buddy.

http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simu ... s74ta2w1g/

You can obviously mix and match some of the later skills to your liking, since iunno how many links would be appropriate for you on allies/enemies, but that bind duration seems really good for crowd control and damage mitigation is always good.

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 24th, 2015, 11:37 pm
by Balerathon
enkie03 wrote:They say that Priest C1 is pretty useless in the CBT because everyone can resu on their own using "coins" but after the CBT, this coins will be limited because you have to buy them. It is the "premium" currency of ToS, I think.

As for the build, with you Cleric, Divine Might is pretty useless now after the nerf, so, it is better to totally forget about it, invest the points instead to Safety Zone, since you party can benefit on this buff as well after you get the attribute for it. As for Cure, the only reason you want to make it higher than lvl 1 is to use it as a damage spell, if so, then you might want to make it higher, but if you just want to use it for utility (i.e. to remove debuff) you can just leave it a lvl 1.

As for Krivis, I've seem on different forums, and from youtube as well, that Aukuras is pretty useless. It will be better to move the points to Zaibas instead. It is one of the best offensive spell in the game and is really powerful. It might not buff you party, but it will help you dish out decent damage, since in this game, it is kinda hard to be FS, you'll have to do some damage yourself. :gawi:
Hey Enkie, thanks a ton for your input! A wonderful point about iCoins. As such, I think the build does call for Priest 1. I've updated the OP with the new build and further info as you suggest.

Bevr wrote:Unless you're settled on the Cleric tree, the Linker from the Mage tree seems like your kinda role, since they have many skills that can help in groups or if its just you and a buddy.

http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simu ... s74ta2w1g/

You can obviously mix and match some of the later skills to your liking, since iunno how many links would be appropriate for you on allies/enemies, but that bind duration seems really good for crowd control and damage mitigation is always good.
Thanks for the tip Bevr! I'll keep that in mind for an Alt. My reason for starting off Cleric is access to the heal : )

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CPCKDP

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 10:54 am
by YuuStynes
What stats should I increase with this build ?

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CPCKDP

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 3:14 pm
by Balerathon
YuuStynes wrote:What stats should I increase with this build ?
Hey Yuu,

Thanks for the question, funny I didn't include that. As for how to distribute points, that will be up to the player and will have an effect on how your char plays within the build. What I really want is to provide all the info you need (with everyone's help) and set folks up to decide for themselves :)

Generally though, we want to focus on Spirit + Int, but which gets prioritized is a personal preference.

According to the TOSBase Wiki:
  • Int
    • Increases min magic attack by 1.
      Increases max magic attack by 1.
    Spr:
    • Increases max SP pool by 13.
      Increases SP recovery rate by 1.
      Increases block penetration by 1.
      Increases magic defense by 0.2.
Below is a breakdown of which skill benefits from either Spirit, Int or Neither in this build. As you can see, Int benefits only a few skills, but they are important ones. On the other hand, most of our skills don't actually depend on a particular attribute as they apply a flat buff / debuff based on skill level and attributes.

That said, I think that if you plan on being more Heal centric (with the benefit of boosting your main DPS skill) then prioritize Int over Spr

If you plan on being more of a utility player and want a larger SP pool, prioritize Spirit.

Heal/DPS > Buff/Debuff: 3-int : 2-spr ratio

Buff/Debuff > Heal/DPS: 3-spr : 2-int or even 2 : 1 ratio (though this will make your heals pretty weak so beware).

I'd probably throw some points into HP as well. A dead cleric casts no boons.
  • Int:
    • Heal
      Cure
      Zaibas
    Spirit:
    • DeProtect Zone
      Aspersion
      Monstrance
      Zalciai
      +Magic Def
    Neither:
    • Safety Zone
      Blessing
      Resurrection
      Divine Might
      Fade
      Aukuras
      Daino
      Simony
      Discern Evil

      All Dievdirby skills - Here I should mention that these skills depend on an independent resource (wood). I currently have 1 point in Carve (which has a chance to drop such resources). If it turns out that this wood is hard to come by, I'll likely bump points into Carve.
Hope this helps, and if I've made any mistakes or you disagree with my analysis, please chime in!

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CPCKDP

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 10:36 pm
by YuuStynes
Balerathon wrote:
YuuStynes wrote:What stats should I increase with this build ?
Hey Yuu,

Thanks for the question, funny I didn't include that. As for how to distribute points, that will be up to the player and will have an effect on how your char plays within the build. What I really want is to provide all the info you need (with everyone's help) and set folks up to decide for themselves :)

Generally though, we want to focus on Spirit + Int, but which gets prioritized is a personal preference.

According to the TOSBase Wiki:
  • Int
    • Increases min magic attack by 1.
      Increases max magic attack by 1.
    Spr:
    • Increases max SP pool by 13.
      Increases SP recovery rate by 1.
      Increases block penetration by 1.
      Increases magic defense by 0.2.
Below is a breakdown of which skill benefits from either Spirit, Int or Neither in this build. As you can see, Int benefits only a few skills, but they are important ones. On the other hand, most of our skills don't actually depend on a particular attribute as they apply a flat buff / debuff based on skill level and attributes.

That said, I think that if you plan on being more Heal centric (with the benefit of boosting your main DPS skill) then prioritize Int over Spr

If you plan on being more of a utility player and want a larger SP pool, prioritize Spirit.

Heal/DPS > Buff/Debuff: 3-int : 2-spr ratio

Buff/Debuff > Heal/DPS: 3-spr : 2-int or even 2 : 1 ratio (though this will make your heals pretty weak so beware).

I'd probably throw some points into HP as well. A dead cleric casts no boons.
  • Int:
    • Heal
      Cure
      Zaibas
    Spirit:
    • DeProtect Zone
      Aspersion
      Monstrance
      Zalciai
      +Magic Def
    Neither:
    • Safety Zone
      Blessing
      Resurrection
      Divine Might
      Fade
      Aukuras
      Daino
      Simony
      Discern Evil

      All Dievdirby skills - Here I should mention that these skills depend on an independent resource (wood). I currently have 1 point in Carve (which has a chance to drop such resources). If it turns out that this wood is hard to come by, I'll likely bump points into Carve.
Hope this helps, and if I've made any mistakes or you disagree with my analysis, please chime in!
I really appreciate the help Bal, really enjoying playing as support role xD

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CPCKDP

Posted: October 28th, 2015, 4:22 am
by Balerathon
YuuStynes wrote:I really appreciate the help Bal, really enjoying playing as support role xD
Awesome! Really glad this helped :) If you discover anything about the build that can be improved or tweaked (or if you decide to go a different path, feel free to let me know how and why!)

Looking forward to digging in myself!

-Bale

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CPCKDP

Posted: October 28th, 2015, 6:05 pm
by enkie03
Like what they said, stat allocation is the player's preference. I just want to add though, you might want to consider CON as well. This will help you increase your HP pool hence will allow you to last longer in battle. Remember that you should be the last one to fall since you will be the one to resurrect (if needed, but since it is still CBT, iCoins are easy to come by - at least it is not unlimited like the previous CBT). though you don't have to invest much into it specially if you are going to Priest C2 since they have Revive.

In my opinion, I might go 2:1:1 (int:con:spr) and you may also consider skipping CON or SPR from time-to-time if you feel like you have adequate HP or SP. My primary stat is still INT to increase MATK (though INT is really underwhelmed since it add nothing else aside from MATK). This only applies to those who will go with the classes that uses magic. If you are planning to go Monk or Paladin, you might want to reconsider STR. Sorry, I don't have any input on that yet. :heh:

Re: Advice wanted: PvE Support/Utility Build: CCKDP*

Posted: October 30th, 2015, 11:12 am
by Enryd
Musteque wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
enkie03 wrote:They say that Priest C1 is pretty useless in the CBT because everyone can resu on their own using "coins" but after the CBT, this coins will be limited because you have to buy them. It is the "premium" currency of ToS, I think.
ToS confirmed P2W
Don't be dramatic. iCoins can also be obtained by completing achievements. Achievements are character bound, not account bound, so you can still earn coins from alts after you've completed all your main character achievements. You can play without spending a dime and still have access to cash shop features, obviously it will require you to be quite active.

Also I wouldn't recommend spending iCoins to self res. Seems like a waste.
Wow, I didn't know that. And yes, I agree. Spending premium currency to resurrect is a waste. Unless you're rich. :gawi: